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Mystic Software => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mark of the Dragon on July 24, 2004, 09:39:51 AM

Title: (no subject)
Post by: Mark of the Dragon on July 24, 2004, 09:39:51 AM
Alright, ever since my project files for "Light in the Dark" got overwritten, I have decided to take a break from the Toolkit. Since all of my well-written programs got deleted, I have decided to abandon that project as well.

However, I'm not done with RPG Making in its entirety; hell no. Rather, I have started on Frozen Tear as a practice game in RM2k (yikes...did I just say that?) However, I will not release the practice version. Instead, after I finish the practice version, I will re-make the game with original music,  graphics, and systems. When I finish the RM2k version of the remake, I will go ahead and make a Toolkit version of it as well. Both versions will be identical for the most part; the most noteable difference will probably be the scrolling issues that have made the TK infamous in some RPG Making communities <_<

I am prepared to take flames, as some of you are still on the immature side. However, I'm sure Spyder and the Admin will take my side in that there is nothing wrong with RM2k...I've toyed with it a little bit, and I must say that it's WAY more flexible than we give it credit for. Also, since everything's broken down into a much more simpler layout in my opinion, development might be a little better.

If you guys would like, I'll probably release the practice version of "Frozen Tear" among this community in order to give you guys an idea of what an RM2K game will actually look like; I'll have Tosoto and EoN handle hosting for it.
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Cesque on July 24, 2004, 10:28:06 AM
Quote
I am prepared to take flames, as some of you are still on the immature side.


Stfu n00b rm2k is teh hobo n00b prg omfg u use it ur lame lol lmao ur sooooo n00b so stfu u (Editor: Censored)in hasu.

Now, really. RM2k is lame, from what I've heard. Altough I didn't use it. What rules, is Game Maker  B) Good, old GM which is fun to use and allows so many things to do.
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Mark of the Dragon on July 24, 2004, 10:47:33 AM
Quote from: "Cesque"
Stfu n00b rm2k is teh hobo n00b prg omfg u use it ur lame lol lmao ur sooooo n00b so stfu u (Editor: Censored)in hasu.

And only a true noob would type that way.
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Post by: Cesque on July 24, 2004, 10:55:11 AM
Get some common sense of humor, man...
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Post by: Mark of the Dragon on July 24, 2004, 10:58:58 AM
Well, let's just say that among my friends are Counterstrike addicts who would slaughter me if I ever typed in that manner; they hate noobs with a passion.

I can't even type in leet-speak anymore.
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Post by: quoaz on July 24, 2004, 11:15:50 AM
heh in CS I type...... the right way. as for your. temp swich for lack of better words...... as long as you come back I'm happy. Smile
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Post by: Dude Man on July 24, 2004, 11:43:10 AM
Quote from: "Mark of the Dragon"
I am prepared to take flames, as some of you are still on the immature side.

Some of us are on the imature side? Geez louize, exusce me Mr.PooPooHead! *joke*

Meh if want to use RM2K go ahead. Maybe I will someday...who knows....I once tried to use TK1 and it drove me insane, let's see if RM2K will, I here it's not as good as TK. But you go ahead and use it, It's a free world, mostly, well were both of us are from it is....uhh....*realizes he is rambaling*...uh....yeah....so....do you like....stuff?
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Spyder on July 24, 2004, 01:12:57 PM
Quote from: "Mark of the Dragon"
Quote from: "Cesque"
Stfu n00b rm2k is teh hobo n00b prg omfg u use it ur lame lol lmao ur sooooo n00b so stfu u (Editor: Censored)in hasu.

And only a true noob would type that way.

Actually Cesque doesn't normally type that way...he was trying to joke around about your "some of you are still on the immature side" comment Wink

Anyways, yeah, there's nothing wrong with RM2k if you prefer low-res, low color, limited feature software that will never be updated again in it's life. TK3 is the future. I think features such as pixel movement in the next release will certainly show that. Yes, the scrolling in RM2k is smoother...but if the TK was running in half the resolution and colors, it probably would too...
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Mark of the Dragon on July 24, 2004, 01:28:06 PM
Well, RM2k is workign just fine for me so far; I don't mind that the gfx are inferior to TK, actually. Also, if I could find some means to order Rpg Maker XP, then I would at this point.
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Post by: Tosoto on July 24, 2004, 01:47:42 PM
graphics don't make the game
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Post by: Mark of the Dragon on July 24, 2004, 01:55:18 PM
Neither do features; thanks tosoto Smile
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Post by: DarkElite on July 24, 2004, 01:58:39 PM
I find the ToolKit actually inferior to the Rm2k (and the new Rm) mainly becuase their project is a team work by many professionals....to add, they also have *far* more resources.........the downside is that it doesnt let you customize the BS and MS....
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Post by: Zeros' on July 24, 2004, 02:03:24 PM
You can still make it appear as if the characters are walking out to attack and use spells with custom GFX.

And dont worry MotD, your still my friend heh...well you have been since the other MS forums.
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Post by: Kahn on July 24, 2004, 02:15:35 PM
It shouldn't matter what program you use as long as it's the best one for your project.
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Post by: Mark of the Dragon on July 24, 2004, 02:57:32 PM
Dark Elite, it is possible to make a CMS and CBS, actually. Believe it or not, the scripting language allows for that.
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Post by: DarkElite on July 24, 2004, 03:36:30 PM
really? i knew the laguage might have, but the question was wether it would let one use it once they scripted it....i thought that you had to use the defaults...
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Post by: Cesque on July 24, 2004, 03:47:14 PM
Who the heck are you, Kahn? Genghis Kahn? Kubla Kahn?  Laughing
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Post by: Dude Man on July 24, 2004, 04:19:55 PM
Dude who made DarkEdge.

And I here by clam myself first person to beat his game! *I beat it the week it came out!*
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Dude Man on July 24, 2004, 04:21:59 PM
Quote from: "DarkElite"
I find the ToolKit actually inferior to the Rm2k (and the new Rm) mainly becuase their project is a team work by many professionals....to add, they also have *far* more resources.........the downside is that it doesnt let you customize the BS and MS....

Well no offenice, but then why are you wasteing your time with us TK people?
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Tosoto on July 24, 2004, 04:26:15 PM
Quote from: "Dude Man"
Quote from: "DarkElite"
I find the ToolKit actually inferior to the Rm2k (and the new Rm) mainly becuase their project is a team work by many professionals....to add, they also have *far* more resources.........the downside is that it doesnt let you customize the BS and MS....

Well no offenice, but then why are you wasteing your time with us TK people?

you should be asking me that question
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Dude Man on July 24, 2004, 04:31:57 PM
Quote from: "Tosoto"
Quote from: "Dude Man"
Quote from: "DarkElite"
I find the ToolKit actually inferior to the Rm2k (and the new Rm) mainly becuase their project is a team work by many professionals....to add, they also have *far* more resources.........the downside is that it doesnt let you customize the BS and MS....

Well no offenice, but then why are you wasteing your time with us TK people?

you should be asking me that question

Well no offenice, but then why are you wasteing your time with us TK people?
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Mark of the Dragon on July 24, 2004, 04:49:11 PM
Because Tosoto started off with the Toolkit. Same with me.

Personally, I think RM2k is the better software. Let's not forget that the default battle system is actually pretty deep, so I don't see myself using a custom one anytime soon.
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Trent on July 24, 2004, 05:27:38 PM
Erm... Consider that if you make an RM2k game... I'm going to have a hellish time running it.

All RM games flicker madly on the computer in my room. Which is the one I always use when I'm at my Mom's house.

I can't even run Laxius Power on it. >_<
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Spyder on July 24, 2004, 06:44:22 PM
To my knowledge, it takes a bit of coding trickery to code a custom menu system and battle system in RM2k (and even more in RM95). I'm not completely sure how much effort it takes to create your own BS and MS in RMXP. However, I do not think there is a translated version of RMXP as of yet. You'll have to wait for Don Miguel to get off his ass I guess.

Tosoto, your right about graphics not making the game, and MotD is right about features as well, but both obviously can add a great deal of appeal to a game. The smoothness of the frame rate has less appeal to me, as well as many others  compared to resolution, color depth, and a cornucopia of features, and aside from stability, it's pretty much the only thing RM2k has going for it; both features which will soon be obsolete with the amount of developing the TK3 programming team has been doing lately.
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Mark of the Dragon on July 24, 2004, 06:52:05 PM
How about increased simplicity, AND a bigger selection of resource sites.
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Zeros' on July 25, 2004, 12:02:10 AM
Quote from: "Mark of the Dragon"
How about increased simplicity, AND a bigger selection of resource sites.

True, true...I tried RM2k before, I was almost out to releasing a demo, but then my moms hard drive got wiped...whats the site for Don's RM2k site agian...
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Tosoto on July 25, 2004, 04:33:46 AM
Don Miguel has been long gone, so RMXP will have to be translated by someone else

<a href='http://www.phylomortis.com/html/rmxpmain.html' target='_blank'>Complete info on RMXP</a>
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Spyder on July 25, 2004, 05:53:59 AM
<a href='http://www.phylomortis.com/html/rmxpblog.html' target='_blank'>Proof</a> that even RPGMaker is not perfect. This guy used a 733MHz computer, and at a mere 640x480 resolution, the game ran at 8-9 frames per second. Even the Toolkit runs faster than that on a Pentium 100MHz at the same resolution!

I personally like this comment...
Quote
Ojima also imagines resource sites carrying scripts for all to use, so that scripts aren't just the domain of the advanced user.

I'm skeptical.
LMFAO! Didn't we have resource sites FOUR YEARS AGO! Laughing

I do realize that there are RPGMaker resource site out there, but I found if funny that the reviewer said he was skeptical, and that one of the authors of the software said that he "imagined" them, as if it was part of his vision for the future or something.

This was also funny...
Quote
I'll explain how to do a transition now. A transition is actually accomplished by using two commands 'Prepare Transition' and 'Execute Transition'...

Code: [Select]
Prepare Transition
Teleport (Fading off)
Execute Transition
Er, couldn't they have accomplished the above just by using one command?....such as...

#Transition("teleport")

So much for their team of programmers...here's more...

Picture limit of 50; variables can only be 8 digits long; names are only 16 characters long;

Many commands were removed that used to be in RM2k, which makes the "more advanced software" actually less advanced in some respects.
Quote
This dependence on RGSS may actually be advantageous to Enterbrain. If future RPG Makers rely more and more on the common RGSS base rather than native code, it might decrease development time while providing extensibility and functionality. Enterbrain would do well not to leave people who want a simpler program in the cold, though.
Oooo, slap in the face for RM2kers! One of the biggest things that they try and throw at us is how much RPGCode is pushed with the TK, and now the same thing is happening to them.
Quote
Cool New Feature: You can preview your messages. If you press F2 in the Input Message window, you will be shown how your message will look in-game.
This feature was added so long ago in the TK, I can't even remember which version it was in....
Quote
A new conditional branch 'Button Input' was added. If a button is pushed, that button's number is put into a variable. If this branch is used, the event waits for input. This is much like RPG Maker 2000's 'Wait Until Key Pressed' option, but it's not waiting for a specific key. Rather, if any key is pressed, the event advances.
Whoa! The TK3 team should get on those features! *COUGH*
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Trent on July 25, 2004, 12:40:50 PM
ROFL, Spyder. It is probably true that TK will always be more advanced than RM. But there will always be people who prefer RM, and we can't really help that.
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Mark of the Dragon on August 13, 2004, 11:29:53 AM
I've scrapped the RM2k project, even though I kinda liked the whole database thing (suggestion to you TK3 designers). Light in the Dark is back, but I'm also taking a step back into the design stage again.
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Dude Man on August 13, 2004, 11:45:46 AM
Okay. So proven fact, RM is not as good as TK. It will always be 2nd best. Razz

Hoo Ray! For Light In The Dark! Very Happy
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Mark of the Dragon on August 13, 2004, 02:25:46 PM
Heh.

Still, RM2k isn't half as bad as a lot of people say it is.

As for the database tab system...I'm serious. That is it's biggest edge over the TK.
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Trent on August 13, 2004, 02:27:11 PM
Yeah, and I'm gonna try and run Laxius Power again. If it doesn't work, then it will be MORE proof that TK is better.
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Spyder on August 13, 2004, 06:31:43 PM
Quote from: "Mark of the Dragon"
Heh.

Still, RM2k isn't half as bad as a lot of people say it is.

As for the database tab system...I'm serious. That is it's biggest edge over the TK.

You say it's not half as bad as we say it is, but it's not nearly half as good as most people make it out to be. We don't make fun of it because we think it's a horrible program. We make fun of it because there are thousands of people out there that claim it to be the best thing ever made. Despite it's flaws, the TK has always been and always will be a more advanced program, and now that we have out own little team of programmers, it should advance far beyond what RPGMaker will ever aspire to be, and be stable as well.

Databases for the TK have been discussed before I think; possibly by CBM, possibly by the programming team, maybe a little of both. I'm sure if it hasn't been taken into consideration, it will be. I personally don't see it as the biggest edge over the TK though. Most people use RPGMaker over the TK because it's stable, runs smooth, and comes with an excellent set of default media files like chipsets and background music. There are already people working on the stability and smoothness of the engine, and the Reeves have given a good variety of music. Now we just need someone willing to donate the graphics.
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Haraldur on August 13, 2004, 06:44:09 PM
I cannot remember, but I think Khin mentioned something about doing the default graphics, or a default game, for the TK. That was months ago though. If all else fails, someone could call on Sophia to do them, and maybe help with the production of the game...

OK, I will stop getting carried away.
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Dude Man on August 13, 2004, 07:52:57 PM
Heh most people use RM because the defeault graphic's and MIDI's are better then TK's but even more people rip the stuff and use it on TK Razz !
Title: (no subject)
Post by: GameCharmer on August 15, 2004, 06:11:41 PM
I went out and got RPGMaker2003 after reading this.  I have a few comparisons:

1) The rm2K3 has a very nice look to the program, and there are a lot of resources for it.  TK is still in developement, so looks come last, and since it's was originally made by one person, it was never advertised and stuff, so less ppl have it, so less resources were made.

2) In the rm2k3, you can only import certain types of files, where as in the TK, you can import almost anything!

3) The rm2k3 uses databases for storing information, the TK uses mass ammounts of separate files.  The databases look good, but you can't sort them, and they are harder to manage...  The TK, on the other hand, is a bit nicer in the snece that u can organize the files as you see fit.

Well, that's my 3-point comparison, lol.  so...  What ya think? Did I do good at all?
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Dude Man on August 15, 2004, 10:36:35 PM
If your goal was saying that TK is better then RM then yes!
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Asimir on August 16, 2004, 06:22:25 PM
Horizon and Montai are making new default graphics and DarkwinterDreams and The Eternal EoN are making new default music (As they're making those things for the new demo game, so those resources will come as default with the TK)
I don't know when they'll be done. Definately not for TK3.0.4. I don't know about TK3.0.5.
Hopefully they'll be done before TK3.0.6 though Razz
Title: (no subject)
Post by: dbz fan y2k on August 16, 2004, 08:08:34 PM
Quote from: "Tosoto"
graphics don't make the game

Quote
Neither do features; thanks tosoto Smile


um... dose anyone else see the flaw in this post?
features dont make the game?
yess, they do, if a game had no features it would be a movie Razz
and if a game had bad graphics and no features, then it would be a crapy movie Razz
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Marc on August 16, 2004, 08:15:42 PM
Quote from: "Asimir"
Horizon and Montai are making new default graphics and DarkwinterDreams and The Eternal EoN are making new default music (As they're making those things for the new demo game, so those resources will come as default with the TK)
I don't know when they'll be done. Definately not for TK3.0.4. I don't know about TK3.0.5.
Hopefully they'll be done before TK3.0.6 though Razz

Not with your, mine and OC's Lazy rate. I'm sure we will have it done by TK3.09. If there are that many versions  Laughing .
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Spyder on August 16, 2004, 09:09:41 PM
I don't see why there wouldn't be that many versions. Look at how many TK2 had.

Didn't Montai leave the community?
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Dude Man on August 16, 2004, 09:48:24 PM
Quote from: "dbz fan y2k"
Quote from: "Tosoto"
graphics don't make the game

Quote
Neither do features; thanks tosoto Smile


um... dose anyone else see the flaw in this post?
features dont make the game?
yess, they do, if a game had no features it would be a movie Razz
and if a game had bad graphics and no features, then it would be a crapy movie Razz

I'd beat the person who would make a movie in TK. I Message Windowed, one charactor moveing at a time movie. TK is good for GAMEs and that's all.


But I don't think your totally right there....but I'm to tired and slow minded right now to make a point about it...so somebody else Laughing
Title: (no subject)
Post by: quoaz on August 16, 2004, 10:12:44 PM
lol,-imagens REalllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy looooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggggggggggg cutseans-
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Mark of the Dragon on August 17, 2004, 03:32:50 PM
Hey Spyder, I could make some default graphics for the TK, heh. Just have CBM email me a list of all the graphics he thinks the next release could use, and I'll gladly make them. Hell, I might even make a new sprite template and some new sample sprites for use with the TK (hell, I could even make a new frickin' demo for TK3, lol).

Actually, no list required. I'll browse through RM2k's resources and get ideas from them (like what kind of character sprites to make, what kind of tiles to make, etc.) Monster sets...give me a while.

Jesus, I'm getting ahead of myself, lol. Somebody IM me on a regular basis to keep me motivated!
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Dude Man on August 17, 2004, 03:42:13 PM
Hmmm...Perhaps after we get some good tiles for TK, we should make a charagenerator type thing built for the TK.
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Mark of the Dragon on August 17, 2004, 04:23:12 PM
LOL. If I include a sprite template, there will be no need for the generator.
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Trent on August 17, 2004, 04:57:19 PM
It's official... RM2k stinks.

I can't fecking run Laxius Power anymore!
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Tosoto on August 17, 2004, 08:06:14 PM
I could make sprites
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Spyder on August 17, 2004, 08:08:23 PM
Quote from: "Mark of the Dragon"
Hey Spyder, I could make some default graphics for the TK,

As I have no part in the development of the TK, I don't think I'm the one you should be asking ^_^ . As said above, there is a group of people working on the new TK3 demo and graphics, so I'd imagine you'd have to join them for your work to be included in it.
Title: (no subject)
Post by: GameCharmer on August 17, 2004, 08:37:31 PM
RM2K3 is ungodly hard to understand.  The TK is WAY easier to use.  By far!  

as for the features thingy..
I'm makin a huge game in VB, with like 50 stats for each character and all this cool stuff Smile
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Cyber Wolf on August 17, 2004, 09:15:17 PM
Heh, RM is inferior to TK as far as flexibility and custom programs, but it does have 2 advantages over TK.

1.) Almost completely bug-less games. (Just an advantage of having a bunch of smart Japanese chaps making an engine..) Still, despite TKs glitches, it's still quite tolerable.

2.) Waaaaayy more resources. Still.. we can steal 'em. I know I am ^^.
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Asimir on August 18, 2004, 09:06:09 AM
Quote from: "Spyder"
Quote from: "Mark of the Dragon"
Hey Spyder, I could make some default graphics for the TK,

As I have no part in the development of the TK, I don't think I'm the one you should be asking ^_^ . As said above, there is a group of people working on the new TK3 demo and graphics, so I'd imagine you'd have to join them for your work to be included in it.

All he'd have to do is send the graphics off to Vampz when he's collecting code and resources for a new TK3 version.
Then we wouldn't have to make new graphics for the demo game, because we can just use his Razz
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Mark of the Dragon on August 18, 2004, 09:30:23 AM
Well, it's going to take a while; I have gotten a bit rusty in the past few weeks (I was grounded...)
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Cesque on August 18, 2004, 10:31:16 AM
I could do some default graphics for tk3, but people will then hate tk3 as the default graphics would not be anywhere near manga.

Razz
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Trent on August 18, 2004, 10:48:46 AM
Not necessarily so, Tourettes Kid #2. I like your drawing style.
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Asimir on August 18, 2004, 11:37:44 AM
Me too.



Except for your people's eyes Razz
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Cesque on August 18, 2004, 12:40:59 PM
Yeah, yeah, all in the eyes... Laughing I guess graphics for SL are only in which I used such eye style.

Generally, default graphics should be perhaps 32x32 rather than 32x64... I guess.
Title: (no subject)
Post by: Dude Man on August 18, 2004, 01:03:03 PM
I dosen't matter since the defeault sprite animation is 32x64. But there is the "other" thingy it has, So you could make a one tile charactor be ten times the regular size Razz